Monday, 26 May 2014

Ukip, David Coburn Is Not The Gay Man You Were Looking For

There have actually been people suggesting that, because David Coburn was elected as a MEP for Ukip in Scotland, Ukip can't possibly be a homophobic party. If you can remember David Coburn is a gay London-based member of Ukip who was instrumental in their opposition to same-sex marriage.

His fact-free attacks on it (suggesting it is some sort of unnecessary victory roll despite there being some very real need for marriage equality) have been looked at before on this blog.

And, just as he struggled to think of one example of EU interference in Scottish business today (audio here:, he has always struggled to point out how banning religions and individuals from performing legally recognised marriages protects their religious and individual freedom.

He likes to claim to be a libertarian but he is dead set against individual and religious freedom on LGBT issues. He is not a libertarian, and quite clearly Ukip is no libertarian party. The fact he is gay in no way makes him any better on LGBT liberty than equally wonderful and kind-hearted people as Roger Helmer.

You can never convince me, of all people, that just having a gay person in your organisation makes you any better on LGBT rights. Just look at Andrew Pierce at the Daily Mail, Nigel Evans in the Conservative party and those wastes of spaces who work for Stonewall.

Ukip represent a fundamental danger to liberty and freedom of LGBT people in this country. They oppose same-sex marriage, they have candidates who support the efficacy of ex-gay therapy (as opposed to supporting just the freedom to seek it), they have candidates who support criminalising LGBT people. The general moral climate that their victories create is oppositional to sexual freedom and individual liberty.

So no, don't try convincing me that having a man who engages in painful circular arguments in order to harm the freedom of others is somehow a get out of homophobia free card.



neil craig said...

Libertarian is basically the modern term for classic liberal. The fact is that liberalism works, UKIP is the liberal party, and the LDs have previously officially confirmed that you cannot be a classic liberal and a member of your party.

That is why the LDs have no future. Don't blame anybody else, you did it to yourselves. Your claim to now redefine the meaning of "libertarian" is simply dishonest.

Jae Kay said...

Obviously we'll need to know the original definition then as I sort of read it as "believing in individual (and other levels above) liberty".

I'm assuming what you are saying is that Government dictating sexual mores and personal relationships is somehow "libertarian"

neil craig said...

Then you are "assuming" the exact and precise opposite of the facts.

" dictating sexual mores and personal relationships is" is neither liberal nor libertarian, it is what your illiberal party does, in its Orwellian way.

Jae Kay said...

You are the one talking in doublespeak, quote some references/facts/evidence then we can have a chat. Instead of telling me how opposing same-sex marriage without putting forward a libertarian alternative change to how marriage works in this country (something I'd jump at!) is, in fact, libertarian you just criticise the Lib Dems to move the goal posts of the conversation without referencing how this shows Ukip in any better light. "Just as bad as the Lib Dems" doesn't inspire me with much confidence in the governing abilities of Ukip.

neil craig said...

You tried to redefine the English language, precisely as Orwell worried about.

UKIP didn't.

Any honest "debate" must start by you acknowledging that fact.